'There is a time and a place for worship': Councillor sparks debate on prayer before city council meetings 

Cork City Council’s first Social Democrat councillor, Pádraig Rice, has sparked debate for a motion on removing the crucifix from Cork City Council chambers, and stopping the practice of saying a prayer before council meetings.

“There is a time and place for religious worship, and I don’t think it is at Cork City Council meetings,” Mr Rice said.

“Having symbols of one faith and none from all the others sends out a signal,” he added, pointing out that in 1972, the people voted to remove the ‘special position of the Catholic church’ from the 1937 Constitution.

Independent Ireland councillor Ken O’Flynn was quick to oppose this, saying that the motion “is not only divisive but also a disservice to the majority of our citizens who hold these values dear”. 

Mr O’Flynn added: “I stand firm against these misguided attempts to erase our traditions that are important to the ordinary decent people of Cork and call on all members of the council to uphold the values that represent the majority of Irish people.”

'A city that's evolving'

Green Party councillor Oliver Moran said: “66,222 residents of the city identified as being non-Christian or having no religion in the 2022 census, which is 30% of all residents of the city.

“My family is one of these, and people I speak to are astonished that the requirement for prayer is still a part of what is a workplace, as well as a reflection of the city.

“Last year, I notified the lord mayor at the time that I wouldn’t be rising for prayer. Instead, I remain seated respectfully. I’ve been joined in that by other councillors. That’s not to take away from anyone’s faith, it’s a reflection of a city that’s always evolving. The requirement for prayer was removed from Limerick City and County Council when the two authorities merged in 2014. Dublin City Council retains a moment for silent prayer or reflection, which I would support.

“People’s faith, including my own, is something personal to them. A shared moment of silent reflection or personal prayer would be a better way of beginning a meeting.”

Cross gifted to council in 1933

Independent councillor Kieran McCarthy said: “This is my fourth council term, and the fourth time that this has come up, but I always go back to 1933,” explaining that the cross was gifted to Cork City Council by a religious group.

A debate on the matter was proposed after the group wrote to then-Lord Mayor Sean French, and it was accepted, Mr McCarthy explained, adding that this was just four years on from the centenary of the relaxation of the penal laws when Catholic symbols were not allowed: “It was of its time.”

“The historical context is important, and I have no problem with symbols of Christianity. I met with multiple religious groups as mayor, across several religions. As for the prayer, it’s said and gone in a moment, we all have the agenda of the meeting on our minds, it’s not a major issue to fight about.”

The former lord mayor explained that a review of standing orders was started last year, but that they ran out of time, so it was moved out to this year.

Review of standing orders 

Current Lord Mayor Dan Boyle added: “The review of standing orders is very much ongoing. Easy to agree items were agreed before the elections. About 40 more contentious changes are still to be discussed, I’m hoping we can do that in September.”

Fianna Fáil’s Tony Fitzgerald said: “While I respect the rights of fellow councillors to place motions of this kind, I am not in favour of removing the prayer or the crucifix.

“It is part of our city council business since the opening of City Hall, I understand, and I see no reason to change. Members have the option of not participating if that is their wish.”

But People Before Profit-Solidarity councillor Brian McCarthy said that Mr Rice’s motion “is in the interests of separation of church and State so that we can have equal representation for everyone”.

“Our society is made up of people of many faiths and none, all beliefs should have equal status so it’s clearly wrong for the council to link itself to one faith to the exclusion of other beliefs and views.”

Fine Gael councillor Damian Boylan said that out of every door he has knocked on while canvassing, regardless of their religion, nobody ever brought up the topic: “I see no harm in the prayer, I’m not particularly religious but it’s thirty seconds out of a three or four hour meeting so I’m happy to stand for it and reflect, that’s all it is.

“The majority of people in that room have some faith or another, so let’s be inclusive rather than exclusive. For a lot of people, the council is only a stepping stone to greater things, so they would do anything they can do to create a ruckus and get their name in the paper. A debate on a 30 second prayer is taking away from all the work that needs to be done.”

'A place of work'

Labour councillor John Maher had a different opinion, however: “I’m somebody who goes to Mass, has a faith, and gets something from it, but I believe if any other job in the world started their day with a prayer there would be outrage, and City Hall is a place of work.

“I’m delighted that we’re having the conversation. Maybe people will say that they’re happy with it, but I’d be afraid that some people would be too worried not to take a stand for the prayer at the moment.

“I can go to mass anytime I want, I can say a prayer anytime I want, I can bow my head walking into City Hall, but that’s not for me to put on anyone else.”

Sinn Féin councillor Kenneth Collins said: “I think that since there’s a new council in place, new standing orders need to be looked at.

“Personally, I do go to Mass, but people have their own opinions. If they want to stand for the prayer and stay standing for the moment of reflection, sit for the prayer then stand or stay sitting for the whole thing that’s their choice, that was a compromise before my time.”

Mr Rice said in response to the issues raised: “It’s incorrect to state that this is the only issue I raised. It’s possible to work on multiple issues simultaneously and housing is a huge priority for me.

“As it happens, I also had two questions down on housing for Monday’s Council meeting. However, as a new councillor, the prayer and the iconography in the council chamber really struck me in the first meeting as being entirely inappropriate for a civic body.

“For that reason, I decided to put this motion down."

The motion is due to come back before council later in the year.